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 Post subject: The North
PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 6:18 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2016 2:44 pm
Posts: 151
Location: Georgia - USA
Why is it that no one will pick up reindeer hides in The North?
I've got hides laying around all over the place and the tailor has no material to work with.

Here's the mods I have installed.

Spoiler:
banishedUImaps.pkm
CheapTunnels.pkm
DebugMenu.pkm
DSFences.pkm
DSRoads.pkm
DSSmallVillage.pkm
DSWagonVendor.pkm
EBApothecary.pkm
ebbakery.pkm
ebbarn.pkm
EBChurch.pkm
EBFarmhouses.pkm
ebfarmstand.pkm
EBOilPress.pkm
EBWindmill.pkm
ForestOutpost.pkm
Gridlines.pkm
HappinessRadius.pkm
hydrafastroad25.pkm
MiniBuildings.pkm
MrFlopsiesStoneBridge.pkm
nordichouses.pkm
OldBakeryHouse.pkm
OldBlacksmith.pkm
OldHunterHut.pkm
OldTailorHouse.pkm
rowhouse.pkm
Terraform.pkm
TheNorth.pkm
TimeIsMoneyAltVersion1ByDarkbibou.pkm
UnhappinessRadius.pkm

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 Post subject: Re: The North
PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 11:41 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2014 9:53 pm
Posts: 473
Location: 48°5’ north, 71°04’ west
Looking at your mod list: I think nordic houses is part of the mod, its the housing in a stand alone. I don't know what time is money does, but that seems to be the only mod that could have an impact, also is the north the first mod that loads, it should be, sometimes that can fix minor issues. Otherwise there is no conflict in the mods you use. :grandpa:

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 Post subject: Re: The North
PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2016 2:30 am 
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Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2016 2:44 pm
Posts: 151
Location: Georgia - USA
Denis de la Rive wrote:
Looking at your mod list: I think nordic houses is part of the mod, its the housing in a stand alone.

It's a recommended additional mod listed on The North's Home page. I guess it's more extensive than what comes with The North by default. I don't know. I was just going by what Tom said. :winking:

Quote:
RECOMMENDED MODS

The following mods are particularly suited to be combined with the Nordic theme. Place them below the North in your mod list and the additional buildings and resources will be adapted to the Nordic gameplay:

Medieval Town (by RedKetchup)
The 2 story Bakery, Blacksmith, Tailor House and Hunter Hut (by RedKetchup)
DS Small Village, DS Wagon Vendor and Decorations (by Discrepancy)
Small Town Rowhouses, Forest Outpost and Nordic Houses (by Kid/Nomad)
Windmill and Bakery, Farmhouses, Storage Shed, Farmstand, Apothecary, Oil Press and Church (by embx61)
Minibuildings (by BlackLiquid)
Stone Bridge (by MrFlopsy)
Proper Time for realistic aging (by Kid/Nomad)

Denis de la Rive wrote:
I don't know what time is money does, but that seems to be the only mod that could have an impact,

This is what the Time is Money mod does.

Attachment:
Time_is_Money.jpg
Time_is_Money.jpg [ 14.15 KiB | Viewed 323 times ]

It just moves the speed controls to the left of the main menu.

Denis de la Rive wrote:
also is the north the first mod that loads, it should be, sometimes that can fix minor issues. Otherwise there is no conflict in the mods you use. :grandpa:

This is how it was.

Attachment:
Was.jpg
Was.jpg [ 68.75 KiB | Viewed 323 times ]

I don't see how the mods above it could affect it, but for the sake of testing I rearranged the mods to this.

Attachment:
Is.jpg
Is.jpg [ 67.44 KiB | Viewed 323 times ]

I'll see if that changes anything.


Edit 1: I guess the order of the mod list did make a difference. They're picking up the hides now.

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 Post subject: Re: The North
PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2016 6:54 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2014 9:53 pm
Posts: 473
Location: 48°5’ north, 71°04’ west
:thumbsup: :winking: :grandpa:

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 Post subject: Re: The North
PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 10:36 am 
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Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2016 2:44 pm
Posts: 151
Location: Georgia - USA
Maybe someone here can help me out. I can't understand why I can't produce any charcoal and bloom.

Attachment:
Image1.jpg
Image1.jpg [ 62.44 KiB | Viewed 310 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: The North
PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 12:01 pm 
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Posts: 1040
Location: Berlin
I would say that the "Nordic Houses" are a stand-alone mod by Kid1293 based on the nordic houses... it was basically done for those who wanted red houses without using the actual North mod... Same with "Red Cottage" and "Nordic School" - released by Tom as standalones... All these are not really needed if you use The North mod.


Hawk wrote:
I can't understand why I can't produce any charcoal and bloom.

I think you need to experiment a bit with your Limits to find out what is a material or fuel or logs etc...
As long as those Limits are "filled", nothing in that category will be produced...

I know that in the latest version (4.3 or later) the limits, dialogs, mouse-over hints and limit spinners etc. have been redesigned for more clarity...

Quote:
I have revised the flags and limits so they are more understandable. All buildings get meaningful limit labels such as "Ore Limit". There will be the following classification. Not new but more tidy.

Wood: logs, timber(?)
Stone: stone, clay, bricks and tiles
Ore (tech. Iron): iron ore, copper ore, silver ore, stored on piles
Fuel: firewood and coal, stored on piles
Material (tech. CoalFuel): stored in barns
Food
Herbs
Clothes
Tools
Drinks (tech. Alcohol): stored in taverns
Coins (tech. Textile)

A few changes were necessary. Charcoal is now only a material, not ore and not fuel. The charcoaler follows the material limit and the charcoal will be stored in barns. No way to keep it on piles without confusions. But I think it's not a problem. It has to be stored next to a blacksmith together with bloom and iron (in a barn). The brewery follows the material limit to produce "not auto consumed" alcohol and the tavern follows the "drink limit" to control the consumption of alcohol. Material is of course a collection category for all new resources without a specific game function and it is not possible to control anything specifically but now it feels better in game without confusions about the limits. And it is close to vanilla and CC.

from: http://worldofbanished.com/index.php?topic=1331.msg25806#msg25806

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 Post subject: Re: The North
PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 12:27 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2016 2:44 pm
Posts: 151
Location: Georgia - USA
I do have the latest version.

That's what I don't understand. I have no charcoal. The limit is set at 400. I have 0. How can I have reached the limit?
Same with bloom.

I even have less than 400 iron ore (I moved a bunch to the trader to get less than 400, just in case something was quirky there), which - to me - shouldn't be an issue.

I can raise the limits but that doesn't solve the problem, in my mind.

I think I'm going to abandon this mod so I can actually play the game. I don't like the way the blacksmith is set up either. Again it's the limits. Why should steel and iron limits dictate how many tools I can make? It just doesn't make sense.

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 Post subject: Re: The North
PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 12:51 pm 
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Location: Berlin
Hawk wrote:
I can raise the limits but that doesn't solve the problem, in my mind.

Hmmm - but does raising the limits solve the problem in your game? :thinking:


Well, the problem (as with all mods) is the limitation on flags... to get around those limits there are different approaches... sometimes we can wrap our heads around them, sometimes we can't... :shrugging:

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 Post subject: Re: The North
PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 12:59 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2016 2:44 pm
Posts: 151
Location: Georgia - USA
OK! I raised the limit from 400 to 1,000 and it started producing again.
My question is why? As you can see in the inventory list, there is nothing there that should be stopping the production of charcoal and bloom if the limit is set at 400.
It just doesn't make sense.

I thought it might be counting firewood towards that limit, which would be wrong - but it was a thought. Turns out that wasn't it either since firewood is above 1,000.

Edit 1: I didn't see that quote you gave a couple of posts up. I guess you added that after I posted, or I'm just blind. :roll-laugh:
I'll look that over and see if it makes any sense.

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 Post subject: Re: The North
PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 1:15 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2016 2:44 pm
Posts: 151
Location: Georgia - USA
I went to the link you gave a couple of posts up and read some of that topic. I think I see the issue now.
It seems the game coding is limited on the amount of flags that can be used, and by adding more commodities, the new commodities have to be assigned to existing flags, which means even though a particular commodity hasn't reached it's limit, some other commodity that uses the same flag has, hence stopping production of all commodities using that flag.

Hmmm? Gives one pause to ponder. :hmmm: :thinking:

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 Post subject: Re: The North
PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 1:33 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2016 2:44 pm
Posts: 151
Location: Georgia - USA
I think I figured out my particular situation and it seems that the amount of wool I have (along with other items) is what's blocking further production of charcoal and bloom.

I did some testing. I added up wool, steel tools, Reindeer coats, steel, Reindeer hides, iron tools, and iron (all the produced stuff stored in barns, other than food stuff), then raised the charcoal limit to just above that total and it started producing again.

I think I understand why it works like this, but I'm not so sure I like it. :rolleyes:

Edit 1: A bit more testing and I think I've got it.
I started moving wool to the trader and after adding up wool, steel tools, Reindeer coats, Reindeer hides, and iron tools, once that total fell below 400 the charcoaler and bloomer started producing again.
Note that I included steel and iron above but those two commodities apparently don't count in this total.

Bottom line: According to the discussion at the topic linked to above, and the apparent coding limitations in the game, The North requires a completely different mindset to play it.

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 Post subject: Re: The North
PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 3:34 pm 
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Location: Berlin
Hawk wrote:
Bottom line: According to the discussion at the topic linked to above, and the apparent coding limitations in the game, The North requires a completely different mindset to play it.

YES to both... :laughing:

That thing about the flags is the single worst shortcoming of the ModKit, and it has driven modders up the wall since day 1... it really prevents us (rather: the modders) from adding distinct items, instead we need to lump things together in the 8 or 10 flags we have available that at first sight do not belong together.

You will see that "phenomenon" in every mod that tries to make its own production chains.

Same with the north, but different :roll-laugh: as it also has its own chains, plus it changes the whole balancing...

So that is something you got to roll with... at least when playing with mods. Not much the devs can do about it.
* All protests have only moved the maker (Luke) to re-define the "Textiles" flag, but he did not add more... :shrugging:

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 Post subject: Re: The North
PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:14 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2016 2:44 pm
Posts: 151
Location: Georgia - USA
Yea, I finally figured all that out. It is a shame and I now know it's not Tom Sawyer's fault, or any mod's fault. It's just game coding restrictions.

I certainly understand that. A group of folks over at my forum are still dealing with similar issues when trying to mod RT3.

Oh well! I'm not using wool for anything anyway. I guess I'll just move it to the trader and try and trade with it. It does have a trade value of 12 so that's pretty good.
I still find it a bit of a pain to have to micro-manage the blacksmith so much due to this issue, but at least it kind'a makes sense. A lot more than wool and charcoal. :pullhair:

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction for understanding this. :thumbsup:

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 Post subject: Re: The North
PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 9:20 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2014 9:53 pm
Posts: 473
Location: 48°5’ north, 71°04’ west
Reading all this, I have to ask, what do you use limits for? :dazed:

I find them a useless function, keeping them high to avoid the problem you are seeing. When they are reached I increase them, simple as that. It avoids micro-management of any chains, all I get are some "this" is very low messages, I ignore them since I know they are applied on very large numbers. :grandpa:

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 Post subject: Re: The North
PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 9:35 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2016 2:44 pm
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Location: Georgia - USA
Denis de la Rive wrote:
Reading all this, I have to ask, what do you use limits for? :dazed:

That's a very good question for The North mod, since limits are detrimental to game play with that mod.
Normally I use limits for reasons I've mentioned before. Just a quirk of mine. :laughing:
It does help keep storage from filling up and why would you want so much of an over abundance of food in real life. It would just go bad.
The real life thing is part of my quirk. It runs over into other games as well. :laughing:

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